Posts by Disillusioned JW

4

2001translation.com Website?

by lynnmelo in

jw
friends

hi, again, folks (i've posted 2 times today).

my sister (who is also studying with the jw's) found this website.

it says it isn't affiliated with any specific religion, but she said that many of the explanations are right in line with the jw's take on things.

Disillusioned JW

Despite what Narkissos posted 16 years ago I notice the following.

Currently https://2001translation.org/ they refer to the OT as "Jewish Era" instead of as "Hebrew Scriptures". The https://2001translation.org/about/faq says "Also, we found the Greek Septuagint text to be possibly more reliable than the Hebrew Masoretic text used by most Bibles. Yet, there are very few English translations of the Greek Septuagint. This translation provides a public service by providing a modern translation from the Greek. Further, much of the Christian Era books may have been originally written in Aramaic (or were at least very early translations). This is important because the Aramaic text fixes some problems and even solves some mysteries, yet most Bibles pay little attention to it."

https://2001translation.org/read/jeremiah says "Septuagint text: This book may read differently to what you’ll see in other Bibles. Why? We use the much older Greek Septuagint manuscripts which we believe are more authentic. These were the manuscripts used by many 1st-century Christians, including the Apostles. Our translation is created by volunteers, and we are always correcting and refining the text. Learn what [brackets] and other insertions mean."

https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-in-new-testament mentions every place where the translation uses Jehovah, and it says their basis for each usage, and it does not mention Romans 10:13 as being a place where the name Jehovah is used. At https://2001translation.org/read/romans in Romans 10:13 it says "Therefore, everyone that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!"

https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-in-new-testament makes a very strong argument for their use of the name Jehovah in the NT. More than 12 years I was wondering if there could be a basis for use of the name Jehovah in the NT due to the Jehovah references mentioned in a section of the Darby translation of the the Holy Scriptures, which mentioned that in many places the NT lacks the definite article proceeding the Greek word for Lord - especially in quotes of the OT where the Greek Septuagint substitutes the Kyrios for YHWH. Likewise I had learned that the Aramaic NT often uses Maryah (notice that word includes "yah" and thus appears to mean "Lord Yah").

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

I picked up the from the library the book by Franz called Crisis of Conscience (Fourth edition) and I am finding it interesting. In reading it I get a very strong conviction that Raymond is sincere in his book. Yesterday I noticed that a branch library of my county's library system has Penton's book called Apocalypse Delayed and thus I placed a hold on it.

From my branch of the county library I checked out Jesus Before The Gospels (by Bart D. Ehrman) yesterday., after I saw a copy of it yesterday at the book sale held in the library. I also saw the following books at the sale. The Jesus Papers: Exposing the Greatest Cover-Up in History (by Michael Baigent) [a placed a hold on a copy of it from the library while I consider buying the one which is at the sale], two editions of Darwin's Origin of the Species book (one with a Foreword or Introduction by Julian Huxley), some other books on evolution, two copies of Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress (by Steven Pinker), and some other books of interest.

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

Regarding Raymond and works published by Raymond's "publishing concern, Commentary Press" https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/ says the following. "Because his efforts were made for those seeking spiritual truth and freedom, we offer these works freely to anyone looking to benefit from those unique insights. Further, we encourage you to share this archive with others." https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/ has free PDF downloads of Commentary Press editions of the following books:

- Crisis of Conscience (Fourth edition, Revised and Updated – May, 2004) by Raymond Franz (with topical and Scriptural indexes), 420 pages

- In Search of Christian Freedom (Second edition, Revised and Updated – 2007) by Raymond Franz, 736 pages

- The Sign of the Last Days – When? [English] (First edition, 1987) by Carl Olof Jonsson & Wolfgang Herbst, [Edited by Raymond Franz], 390 pages.

The above downloads seem to be with permission by the new publisher, for in contrast in regards to The Gentile Times Reconsidered [English] (Fourth edition, Revised and Expanded – 2004) by Carl Olof Jonsson, 390 pages, it says the following. "(No longer available due to request from new publisher. Available for purchase here)".

Sadly when it came the topic of evolution Commentary Press displayed the same negative type of views as did the WT. See https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/why-popular-reasons-for-believing-evolution-are-wrong/ . Though that essay (which is a Book review of Icons of Evolution by Jonathan Wells, Ph.D.) makes a number of true factual statements which are critical of some ideas of evidence of evolution, it doesn't state any of the overwhelming evidence that strongly support evolution as being true.

https://ad1914.com/jw-experience-of-raymond-franz/ says the following.

'In an online tribute to Raymond Franz, CommentaryPress.com states:

“As Raymond learned the inner workings of the Governing Body, he became deeply concerned that the focus was more on preserving the image of the Organization rather than on sound Biblically based decisions. His disappointment lead to his sharing with Cynthia what he was troubled with concerning the Governing Body. Cynthia agreed with Raymond and together the two of them decided to leave the world headquarters in 1980.” '

https://ad1914.com/personal-experience-carl-olof-jonsson/ says the following.

'Anyone who has studied Watchtower literature knows that they are experts at misrepresenting scholars. The quoting of scholars in this case is no exception. Let me share an example. In the Watchtower publication, “Let your kingdom come,” p. 187 they try to present the picture that Babylonian history might be in error, and that yet undiscovered material could drastically alter the chronology:

“Professor Edward F. Cambell, Jr., introduced a chart, which included Neo-Babylonian chronology, with the caution: ‘It goes without saying that these lists are provisional. The more one studies the intricacies of the chronological problems in the ancient Near East, the less he is inclined to think of any presentation as final. For this reason, the term “circa” [about] could be used even more liberally than it is.'”

As Jonnson points out, the Watchtower did not mention that the chart referred to “covers the chronologies of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor, Assyria and Babylon from c. 3800 to the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C., and although the term “circa” is placed before many of the reigns given in the lists for this long period, no circas are placed before any of the reigns given for the kings of the Neo-Babylonian period!” (p. 292)

So much for doubting the accuracy of the Neo-Babylonian sources!'

35

No beards...even Jesus! Strange Watchower rule for brothers!

by Witness 007 in

watchtower 1954 p.511 "why do watchtower publications now show jesus with short hair and no beard?

because he is shown that way in older representations of him that are older then the traditional effeminate looking pictures.".

watchtower 1968 p.286 "bible evidence and a recent review shows that jesus did have a beard..." charles russell style of beard was popular at bethel...till rutherford took over.

Disillusioned JW

Adding to the Watchtower's business model approach, while Rutherford was president the congregations of the WT were referred as "companies".

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

Correction: In my earlier post where I say "interesting.It " that accidently became a link. It should not have been a link. Instead I intended to write "interesting. It".

Further information: From what I read about In search of Christian Freedom, that book seems to me that it would be very interesting to read.

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

Correction/Update: I was in error when I said "In a quick browse of the https://nulifepress.com/ web site I didn't find any books by Raymond Franz mentioned." Instead the website, which I had incorrectly thought was the right website, was https://nlpress.com/ ; that one is completely different. The https://nulifepress.com/ has trouble loading - it gets timed out when the browser tries to load the page - and I thus wonder if NuLife Press is no longer in business. Sometimes https://nulifepress.com/ redirects to https://nulifepress.net/ and that latter page says "This Website is presently Under Construction." That pages (ending in .net) claims to be owned by the other NuLife Press (the one ending in .com) since the bottom of its page says "Copyright © 2020 nulifepress.com." I suspect that NuLife Press currently is not publishing any books.

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

The copies of the In search of Christian Freedom book are offered at steep prices on Amazon, apparently reflecting collectible status. The web page at https://ad1914.com/jw-experience-of-raymond-franz/ is very interesting.It has a link to CommentaryPress.com which redirects to https://nulifepress.com/ (Nulife Press). Is the latter the company that Deborah Dykstra works for (or formerly worked for)? In a quick browse of the https://nulifepress.com/ web site I didn't find any books by Raymond Franz mentioned.

The https://ad1914.com/jw-experience-of-raymond-franz/ web page says the following. 'In September 1980, the Governing Body distributed a letter to all Circuit and District overseers stating that apostates need not be promoting doctrines to be disfellowshipped. The letter stated that individuals who persisted in “believing other doctrine despite scriptural reproof” were also apostatizing and therefore warranted “appropriate judicial action”.' That reminds me of what I read in the 1980s (or maybe I didn't notice it till later) in the WT literature and that idea was disturbing to me, namely that one could be an apostate even if one is keeping one's ideas entirely solely to oneself.

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

By the great crowd in the temple in heaven, I mean even in the sanctuary (NAOS) of the heavenly temple - not in the courtyard.

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

The library closest to me (the one in my small city) has the Crisis of Conscience book and currently available for check out. It is the one from 2004, the 4th Edition (published by Commentary Press). Today I thus placed a hold request for it and I intend to pick it up tomorrow (the universe willing ). Yeah! In contrast none of the branches of the county library in the neighboring big city has it, nor does the huge library of the university I had graduated from decades ago. None of them have the other book by Raymond Franz. I now think the Crisis of Conscience book I read years ago must have been one I must have checked out from my local library, instead of me having bought it.

Beth Sarim, when I previously read Crisis of Conscience (but I didn't read all of it) it was after I had stopped attending WT Meetings (other than probably the Memorial and the Circuit Assemblies) - after I began having serious doubts about the WT/JW religion and during the time period I was doing independent research of the WT and the Bible, before I became an atheist. When I had read the book it was primarily to look for critiques of WT doctrines but I found little of that in book and that disappointed me. Either in that book, and/or online, I read Raymond state his reasoning backing up his idea that the great crowd mentioned in Revelation will be in heaven according to the Bible. I was very impressed; I was thinking wow, his scriptural reasoning is excellent - far better than that given in much of the WT literature! I was convinced of the correctness (according the scriptures) of his teaching that the great crowd will be heaven in the heavenly temple.

45

Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??

by Witness 007 in

so imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.

true pioneer!

👍 love ❤️ .

Disillusioned JW

Thanks Beth Sarim for telling me about Deborah Dykstra's edition of Crisis of Conscience. I think I would prefer to buy that edition, provided I can be confident that she didn't change any of the wording of what Franz wrote. That is because I read the following about it.

Dykstra's edition includes an epilogue by her in which she mentions her experiences. She was a friend of Raymond Franz and his wife. She had also been a regular pioneer and a temporary special pioneer, but is now out of the religion and has a number of negative views about the religion. I think the epilogue mentions those things in detail.

Perhaps I will check out both editions from the library (most likely by Inter Library Loan), so I can decide which one I prefer, before I purchase an edition.